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  • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

    Member
    November 3, 2022 at 9:26 am

    Ask the team this question under the Contact tab.

  • SE.Webmaster

    Administrator
    November 3, 2022 at 10:26 am
  • mamasha

    Member
    November 5, 2022 at 2:47 pm

    The instructions state to send the documents to Joseph Longo.

    There are 2 addresses on the documents. Do I send to both or only the PO box? It looks like the other address is to ASIC.

    • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

      Member
      November 5, 2022 at 3:18 pm

      Send to both.

    • Liberty

      Member
      November 15, 2022 at 11:28 am

      Hi Mamasha

      ASIC site says:

      Please note that all Australia Post mail must be sent for processing to GPO Box 9827 Brisbane Qld 4001. DX: 653 Sydney. As per the document Mark provided.

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  Liberty.
      • mamasha

        Member
        November 18, 2022 at 5:55 pm

        Sorry but what does the DX: mean?

        • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

          Member
          November 18, 2022 at 6:44 pm

          DX stands for Direct Exchange. It’s a business-to-business mail service offering next-day delivery of letters and parcels to customers within the exchange.

          Australian Document Exchange (DX)

          It covers the major cities and towns. Membership is indicated on letterheads by reference to the relevant Australian Document Exchange number and district, e.g. DX 205 SYDNEY.

      • mamasha

        Member
        November 18, 2022 at 6:02 pm

        I realize i should have put the DX info after the address on the envelope. I did not do that so what now? Do i actually send to the sydney one?

        • robert4freedom

          Member
          December 2, 2022 at 8:16 pm

          In Marks documents It has both addresses in the Notice of conditional acceptance and then just the PO Box in the cert of mailing. Also sending to a PO box doesnt get a signature so I have only sent to the Sydney office Its also nearly two weeks ago I sent it but not delivered and the post office are saying its because of the floods (like they would) So I then sent it buy fax from the library and the fax transmission receipt hadn’t come through so the guy at the library said they take a while and that he’d mail to me when it did which he didnt! I dont really know what to do what to do with next notice which is due in a couple of days. I guess I’ll mail it Registered post again Plus fax it again

  • lmangan

    Member
    November 10, 2022 at 12:08 pm

    I act as Director of a sole trading company, but council claims according to the Food Act 2006 a food license can only be held by a corporation or incorporated association. However, on page 15 Chapter 1, Part 2 Application and purposes of Act, Division 1, Application, 3. Act binds all persons (1) This Act binds all persons.

    No man or woman is bound by any statute or act? Is this not a remedy being provided?

    • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

      Member
      November 10, 2022 at 4:08 pm

      If you are acting as a Director then you are acting as a person if your company is registered in the public arena.

    • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

      Member
      November 10, 2022 at 4:11 pm

      If the Council are making that claim then if you can find sole traders who are doing what you want to do, then approach them and find out how they got to do it. If you can’t find any then ask your question of the team or pay for a session so you can find out what your options are there. I think it is $200 for an appointment.

    • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

      Member
      November 10, 2022 at 4:17 pm

      Isn’t your company a corporation? Here’s a definition from Black’s Law Dictionary 9th Edition; corporation, n. (l5c) An entity (usu. a business) having authority under law to act as a single person distinct from the shareholders who own it and having rights to issue stock and exist indefinitely; a group or succession of persons established in accordance with legal rules into a legal or juristic person that has a legal personality distinct from the natural persons who make it up, exists indefinitely apart from them, and has the legal powers that its cop.stitution it. Also termed corpora- tion aggregate; aggregate corporation; body corporate; corporate body. See COMP ANY . [Cases: Corporations

      1.] – incorporate, vb. corporate, adj.

      “A corporation is an artificial being, invisible, intangible, and existing only in contemplation of law. . . . [I]t pos- sesses only those properties which the charter of its creation confers upon it.” Trustees of Dartmouth Collego

  • lmangan

    Member
    November 12, 2022 at 7:37 pm

    Thanks, Morag. Yes, the company would be a corporation. My son and I have a partnership which runs the business, but the food licence can only be given to a corporation or incorporated association under the Food Act 2006, which binds all ‘persons’. If, as a man and woman we respond that we are not persons, could we not claim to be exempt? No, I don’t know any business owners who have avoided the issue. I’mjust posing the question. It’s all very confusing, annoying, frustrating… we just want to serve our customers.

  • whitelight

    Member
    November 12, 2022 at 9:36 pm

    I have a ‘dumb’ question relating to the Conditional Acceptance letter Mark provided. Mark mentions towards the top of the second page that the amount of $10m be paid to <Your name> but further down mentions, <Your Estate>? Is this meant to be your name or the name of your SMSF? Not sure if this was an error or intentional?

    • Liberty

      Member
      November 25, 2022 at 6:20 pm

      Fair question – I wondered as well. I actually put my name as I didn’t want to include the name of my Private Foundation – then it becomes known to them and is no longer Private I figured. They already have my Name so they can write the cheque to me – $5M will be very handy thanks very much. ha!

    • Liberty

      Member
      November 25, 2022 at 6:21 pm

      PS. Love the name whitelight.. thats awesome!

      • whitelight

        Member
        November 27, 2022 at 12:12 pm

        Haha, thank you. I always struggle with account names so I figured I would use what I’m striving for.

  • whitelight

    Member
    November 12, 2022 at 9:42 pm

    One more thing, I’m assuming the pages of the letter of Conditional Acceptance needs to be glued across the top or in the top left corner to ensure it’s one document.

    • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

      Member
      November 13, 2022 at 8:10 am

      Conditional acceptances don’t need to be glued together.

      • whitelight

        Member
        November 14, 2022 at 9:57 pm

        At the end of the conditional acceptance letter where you sign Mark has “All rights reserved, none” in the template, is the “none” intentional? If so, what does it mean?

        • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

          Member
          November 15, 2022 at 6:10 am

          He probably meant to say ‘none waived ever’ eg

          By:

          Jane Doe

          All rights reserved,

          none waived ever

          • Liberty

            Member
            November 15, 2022 at 6:20 pm

            oh – wish I had understood your ref better (now I get it when I reflect back on the letter earlier), not to worry I sent off the doco lols.. they probably wont even notice – too busy deciding what to do, i trust all is well.

            Gotta Smile 😉

  • whitelight

    Member
    November 16, 2022 at 12:28 pm

    Ok I thought it might have been an error, I should have listened to my gut and deleted it… I read through the entire document about 10 times and made little tweaks in other places.

    I post my first letter this week, has anyone else heard anything back yet?

    • catriona

      Member
      November 25, 2022 at 10:40 am

      I had the same response from ASIC that others did. I am now looking at how to re-write the first notice to reflect the change of address to ASIC. Iam not sure whether I should replace “ASIC” with “ABRS” all throughout the document. It gets a bit confusing because it is ASIC issuing fines, so items 5, 7,13,14 and 15 are possibly not relevant to the ABRS or need major re -wording.

      • Liberty

        Member
        November 25, 2022 at 12:19 pm

        Hi Catriona – I received reply from ASIC also. So I jumped onto the letter and changed to ABRS and sent off Reg post the next day. Mark has since updated the zip pack so you dont need to worry about it too much, just use his latest pack. I emailed Mark showing him response from ASIC so he has kindly updated the zip pack for all members.

        • catriona

          Member
          November 25, 2022 at 4:33 pm

          Hi Liberty, thanks for your reply. Yes, I downloaded the modified ZIP where Mark suggests a response to ASIC. In reading your response about reposting to ABRS it sounds like you simply changed the addressee to ABRS but left the contents identical. That’s what I was referring to, because if you read each of the 22 items you realise they are related to ASIC’s role and not that of the ABRS. My intention is make sure I have a clear and pertinent letter for the ABRS so that it stands up legally…eg for point 7i, 7ii, 7iii, 7iv at the very least, where they agree to accept a 10 million (or whatever) liability for misusing my property, there is no point saying “you, ASIC” agree where “you” now means ABRS. It makes this point in the notice contradictory and possibly void. What are your thoughts??

          • whitelight

            Member
            November 27, 2022 at 12:14 pm

            When you re-downloaded module 70 did you have to pay for it again or is there a way to download the pack as as an update? I just tried to download it but the site takes me through the checkout process.

            • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

              Member
              November 27, 2022 at 5:59 pm

              Ask this question of the team under the Contact Tab

            • Liberty

              Member
              November 27, 2022 at 9:47 pm

              Hi Nigel. Webmaster said to download again from Your account dashboard for the new zip pack. 🙂

            • whitelight

              Member
              November 29, 2022 at 8:57 am

              Thank you. I think I ended up repurchasing and then realized that I could have also re-accessed the download link from the original email receipt. Oh well, a donation for Marks hard work.

        • catriona

          Member
          November 25, 2022 at 4:40 pm

          Hi Liberty, thanks for your reply. Yes, I downloaded the modified ZIP
          where Mark suggests a response to ASIC. In reading your response about
          reposting to ABRS it sounds like you simply changed the addressee to
          ABRS but left the contents identical. That’s what I was referring to,
          because if you read each of the 22 items you realise they are related to
          ASIC’s role and not that of the ABRS. My intention is make sure I have a
          clear and pertinent letter for the ABRS so that it stands up
          legally…eg for point 7i, 7ii, 7iii, 7iv at the very least, where they
          agree to accept a 10 million (or whatever) liability for misusing my
          property, there is no point saying “you, ASIC” agree where “you” now
          means ABRS. It makes this point in the notice contradictory and possibly
          void. What are your thoughts??

          • Liberty

            Member
            November 25, 2022 at 6:17 pm

            I’m a very detailed person so I amended all the sections to ABRS except for item 13. I wasn’t sure so I left it with ASIC – I figured that was still applicable and I went with it.

            I don’t perceive they will bother reading down to the detail level. They will ‘understand’ (using their terminology now), what we are asking from them > to provide evidence of which they know they cannot 😉 who is in the better position here? I believe those of us making a stand.

            I am not engaging into their contract to get a Director ID. Lets see what they respond with. This time I did not provide an email for them, they will have to respond by mail – I have patience. lol

            • catriona

              Member
              November 28, 2022 at 4:17 pm

              Hi Liberty, I ended up doing exactly what you did, after I read through it again it seemed only article 13 stayed ASIC. Sending both my “reply to ASIC” and my first notice to ABRS tomorrow. I have really enjoyed this process and feel even clearer doing it a second time through with ABRS. Thanks for your replies!!!

            • catriona

              Member
              November 28, 2022 at 4:51 pm

              Oh yes good idea not to supply an email. Make them work. I just took mine out!

            • Liberty

              Member
              November 28, 2022 at 6:23 pm

              ☺ Yes I figured they are making us work for our freedom so they can spend time responding back. Lol

      • mamasha

        Member
        December 26, 2022 at 1:33 pm

        I modified my documents to send to ABRS before Mark sent the new lot for them out. I simply put a forward slash where it wrote ASIC and added ABRS after that. I figured it’ll cover all the bases, maybe even ones that i don’t know about:)

        • mamasha

          Member
          December 26, 2022 at 1:40 pm

          Also, i noticed a few places where it writes ‘the private wo/man answering to “your name”, are missing the copyright mark. Needed to modify that, as well.

  • SE.Webmaster

    Administrator
    November 24, 2022 at 7:26 pm

    Mark has updated Module 70 ZIP Download pack with a response from ASIC and further guidance. Re-download from Account Dashboard to get a fresh copy.

    • kerry

      Member
      November 26, 2022 at 12:40 pm

      Hi there,

      This is great to see all the learning. I have learnjng issues I confess and retaining information. In didn’t catch up with all this until recently. My first letter took ages to get to GPO. And is still there. 07 Nov it was sent. I’m just sending the second letter now but sending it to physical address. Only to ASIC though. I’m thinking I’ll send a first letter to abrs before 30 Nov. Or am I screwed? I can’t send a second letter to abrs as they didn’t get the first one sent to them. Would that be right. Also, anyone else really worried about them just boxing on with fines?

    • pbcook

      Member
      November 28, 2022 at 7:40 pm

      Hi Webmaster,

      A query on the “Certificate of Mailing” for First Notice(Conditional Acceptance):

      The Certificate lists all respondents who are located at different addresses.

      Am I to delete the ABRS respondents from this template because I will be sending them a separate set of Notices, in a separate Registered Mail envelope, with their own Certificate of Mailing?

      In other words, it doesn’t make sense to me that all of them are listed on one Certificate of Mailing form if they reside at different locations. i.e Joseph Longo in Brisbane, ABRS in NSW.

      So I believe that we are sending out 2 sets of documents, one to each address.

      Look forward to your clarification.

      Thanks in advance

      • jess

        Member
        November 30, 2022 at 3:47 pm

        Yes! I would like to clarify this also.
        @sonya if possible to clarify 🙂

        I’m just amending and printing out now for my husband and I.
        In the current module pack version (just downloaded today), do we:

        …….(1) Send in one Registered post envelope to ASIC, with:

        – Certificate of Mailing (with point 2 removed as it references ABRS Commissioner, ATO and ABRS assistance commissioners)

        – Notice of Cond Acc (with the ABRS/ATO people removed)

        …….(2) Send a seperate Registered post envelope to ABRS, with:

        – Certificate of Mailing (with Point 1 removed, as it refers to Joseph from ASIC)

        – Notice of Cond Acc (with ASIC removed)


        With gratitude,
        Jess 🙂

        • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  jess.
        • Liberty

          Member
          November 30, 2022 at 10:47 pm

          Jess. Don’t bother with ASIC. they replied to me advising nothing to do with them.

          Only send to ABRS. All respondents should be at same location I would imagine.

          Feel into it and go with what feels right for u. That’s what I did. Good luck.

        • Liberty

          Member
          November 30, 2022 at 10:50 pm

          The docs were updated to ABRS by Mark. Did u download update? Shouldn’t hv ASIC or Joseph in there.

          It’s Chris Jordan AO. for ABRS.

          • kerry

            Member
            December 1, 2022 at 8:47 am

            Hi there.

            Yes I updated on 26 November and asic address etc was still there. And I restyled the letter as best as I could. I find these processes quite challenging but can see that others do too. For some reason I was locked out of SE so I’ve left it a few days and got in this morning.

            It is very confusing. But a sent it off anyway. My 2nd letter to basic and first to abrs. This forum is invaluable.

            Thank you.

  • whitelight

    Member
    November 28, 2022 at 11:31 am

    I’ve been doing some more digging and found a few things that could be of value to the cause.

    Ref: https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Publications_Archive/archive/identitycards

    This refers to an identity card referendum proposed back in 1986 and was rejected., the following paragraph was of particular interest:

    “The Government also proposed the introduction of a companion system for corporations, trusts, partnerships, clubs and associations. It was proposed that ‘the most effective companion system would be to use the Australia Card number of a relevant person associated with an entity to validate that prescribed transaction of that entity. The purpose of this companion system … was to prevent the leakage of revenue gains from individuals to entities and other non-individuals’.”

    Isn’t that exactly what they’re doing now and trying to enforce through statutes? You have the option of registering direct with the ABRS and not via the MyGovID app or via the app, both of which are unlawful according the the evidence above.

    Also, has anyone actually read the statutes referenced on the ABRS website? The one that actually refer to you breaking the law, also refers to you as an agent and your obligations as an agent. Reading through the Blacks Law definition of agent it sounds awfully lot like an employee or someone acting in some other capacity on behalf of a corporation. Just thought this might be worth bringing up to see if Mark or others might have a view on this.

    • quantumx

      Member
      December 1, 2022 at 8:59 am

      Good find. I am keeping your text and link with module 70. Thank you.

      • whitelight

        Member
        December 4, 2022 at 4:33 pm

        Just a correction on my last paragraph, the statute refers to an Officer, not an Agent.

  • quantumx

    Member
    December 1, 2022 at 8:50 am

    Just a question. All this with the ABRS sort of doesn’t sound like it’s needed as all the way through this administrative process we annouce:
    Within the universal maxim of law ‘notice to agent is notice to principal and notice to principal is notice to agent’. All addressed parties Jointly and Severally as well as their Successors, Nominees and assigns.”

    Is not ASIC an agent for the ABRS principal?

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  quantumx. Reason: Paste had a whole lot of embedded html
    • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

      Member
      December 1, 2022 at 3:36 pm

      Here’s a letter from ASIC absolving themselves of liability so it’s probably best to deal with ABRS

      • quantumx

        Member
        December 3, 2022 at 2:29 pm

        Thank’s Morag,
        I just received the same letter via email yesterday. Will follow Marks new instructions as they didn’t answer the 22 points thus assenting them.

        • anounceofsaltperday

          Member
          December 6, 2022 at 8:46 pm

          how many notices are you sending? Just one back to ASIC or one to each of the addresses?

          • quantumx

            Member
            January 11, 2023 at 12:41 am

            At this stage just continuing only with ones back to ASIC as I’ve not a clear answer from Mark and I missed the last Q&A with Mark. I’d also have to start again if sending to the ABRS as well.

      • quantumx

        Member
        December 3, 2022 at 2:34 pm

        However the Maxim still stands and I don’t know what would absolve them from this maxim unless they are not an agent.

        • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

          Member
          December 3, 2022 at 5:56 pm

          Hi Quantumx, once you have an agreement with them then you need to learn how to hold your position with your documents. I was in court with someone who had established an agreement and the judge said (unbelievably0 the court doesn’t recognise affidavits and who is this JP, we don’t recognise notice to agent is notice to principal and notice to principal is notice to agent. or words to that effect. He was trying to get us to argue so he could have us up for contempt of court. We were taken unawares and didn’t know what to say, we were holding our position with our notices, but didn’t know what to say when the judge was making these claims that were obviously untrue. It Took three hours for him to come to a decision and we counted that as a victory being it was our first time in court and my friend dealt with what was being offered in another way and it went away. We came back to Mark at a Q and A and he gave us the questions we needed to ask to everything the judge said so next time we will be ready. It’s all about preparation and being prepared for anything, role play is the best way to do this.

          • quantumx

            Member
            December 3, 2022 at 8:53 pm

            Thank you morag,
            Yesterday I actually added something to that effect to my ‘questions for Mark’ list. When someone asks us ‘Is not … this that or the other?’ what is the most effective rebuttal?

            I’ll ask him on the next Q&A.

            • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

              Member
              December 9, 2022 at 2:33 pm

              Hi quantum the safest way to answer a question is with a question. If they make any claims then you could say “That may or may not be, where is the evidence for that claim?” Ask up to three times to establish an agreement. If they do anything else but answer then say “With respect that’s not an answer to my question for the second time blah blah blah” If they threaten you then say (if in court)”My humblest apologies Magistrate blah blah, please tell me what I did wrong so I can make sure I don’t do it again or are you threatening me?” When they don’t answer say “I didn’t think I did anything wrong for the third and final time blah blah blah” If it is the highway robbers at the side of the road just ask when they threaten “Are you threatening me?” They will usually say “No no we just want you to blah blah” you can say “Oh I didn’t think you were threatening me, for the second time blah blah blah” If they keep threatening then it voids what they are doing so you say “Since I am in fear for my life I will comply however I am just informing you that this is being recorded and will be used in evidence against you, do you wish to proceed?” If they keep going, just comply and then use your evidence in court to hold them accountable for their unlawful actions.

            • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

              Member
              December 9, 2022 at 2:36 pm

              If it is in answer to a Notice you have sent, then if they haven’t answered your questions anything they say is a non answer, so you thank them for their reply and say something like “Thank you for your reply however there are still some matters that haven’t been dealt with. Once you answer my questions I will be happy to deal with that matter.” Then include that in your Default Notice and send it to them. These are only suggestions and not legal advice based on my own experience.

            • michael-teo

              Member
              October 20, 2023 at 5:26 pm

              This is the letter I received in response to my non-consent letter/s (I’ve sent 2 rounds so far). I realise that this is a non-answer to the letter/s I have sent.
              However, I have 2 questions about this letter:
              1. Is “It is a criminal offence if you do not apply.” a bluff? I looked up the “relevant law” link in the letter and it doesn’t seem relevant to me…

              Requirement to have a director identification number
              (1) An eligible officer must have a director identification number.

              Officer is defined as:

              “officer” , in relation to a registered foreign company, includes a local agent of the foreign company.

              2. Does “Please note, neither I nor ASIC accepts or assumes any liability whatsoever arising from the matters raised in your correspondence.” hold any weight? Should I specifically address this in the next round? If so, how?

              Edit: I realised that this is mentioned further down this thread so that answers my first question. I’d still like to know about their liability waiver in the letter though.

              • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  michael-teo.
            • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

              Member
              October 21, 2023 at 10:37 am

              If you attain an agreement with them in the private with your three step process, this is in a higher jurisdiction than their legislation and rules so it supercedes their rules. Also do their rules in their corporation supercede legislation or are all corporations bound by legislation? How can they make something a criminal offence if it is not listed under any crimes legislation as such? You now have the ability to thank them for their kind reply, however your questions have still not been answered therefore you now have the ability to give them a third opportunity. This third offer seals the agreement that you will have attained if they still don’t answer your questions within the specified time. Then you can do a fourth step, memorialising all that has transpired in an affidavit which once unrebutted becomes truth in commerce. The important thing is to make sure this is all done competently, and if you have purchased the modules and use the examples there as a guide, then you will be on the right track. If you are completing the non consent to digital ID then you just need to check the documents before you send them to make sure there are no small errors to correct.

            • michael-teo

              Member
              October 21, 2023 at 2:39 pm

              Thank you Morag.
              That’s pretty much what I thought (I must be learning something…). My 3rd round is due to be sent off on Friday 27th. I’m thinking that I’ll add a short letter to that round briefly addressing their letter.

              A couple of thoughts regarding this:
              1. If the Corporations Act is active from 2001, why was it only since 2021 that it is allegedly a criminal offence for a company director not to have a director ID?
              2. Further searching the CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 I found this definition which does seem to include “director of a company” under the definition of “eligible officer”:

              SECT 1272B

              Meaning of eligible officer
              (1) An eligible officer is:
              (a) a director of a company, or of a body corporate that is a registered Australian body or registered foreign company, who:
              (i) is appointed to the position of a director; or
              (ii) is appointed to the position of an alternate director and is acting in that capacity;
              regardless of the name that is given to that position; or

              So it seems that relying on the definition I quoted in the previous post would not hold.

            • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

              Member
              October 21, 2023 at 4:27 pm

              If you read through the Q and A I shared with you, that might also give you some more ideas.. How is it a criminal offence when there is no victim? To ascertain whether a crime has been committed there must be a victim and you must be able to question the alleged victim under the rules of equity; the rules of equity prevail.

            • michael-teo

              Member
              October 23, 2023 at 10:28 pm

              Looking further into this I realise that it is a little more nuanced than I thought…

              These are the sections of the Act that they are referring to saying that they are criminal offences:

              Failure to have a director ID when required to do so. s1272C

              Failure to apply for a director ID when directed by the Registrar. s1272D

              This is s1272D of the Corporations Act 2001:

              (1) An eligible officer whom the Registrar has directed under subsection 1272A(2) to apply for a director identification number must apply to the Registrar under section 1272A for a director identification number:

              (3) An offence based on subsection (1) is an offence of strict liability.
              Note: For strict liability , see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code .

              Now, on 30 March 2023, I did receive a letter from ABRS signed by the deputy registrar stating that I need to get a director ID. Now regarding whether or not it is a criminal offence, it makes sense that that if there is no victim then it can’t be criminal.

              I don’t really understand what this s6.1 of the Criminal Code Act 1995 means or how it applies to this:

              Division 6 — Cases where fault elements are not required
              6.1 Strict liability
              (1) If a law that creates an offence provides that the offence is an offence of strict liability:
              (a) there are no fault elements for any of the physical elements of the offence; and
              (b) the defence of mistake of fact under section 9.2 is available.
              (2) If a law that creates an offence provides that strict liability applies to a particular physical element of the offence:
              (a) there are no fault elements for that physical element; and
              (b) the defence of mistake of fact under section 9.2 is available in relation to that physical element.

              However, there’s an additional layer of complexity… We will be going to court to terminate a wind up (liquidation) order, which involves both demonstrating solvency and showing that we are fulfilling our roles as directors properly. We will be represented by a barrister in this case so it may be difficult to enforce an agreement created by the commercial default.

              Since a company is a creature of statute (and thus is obligated to follow the statutes), it is difficult to maintain the separation between the fiction and the private man, especially when not representing myself… The “director of the company” has an obligation to get a DIN, but the Act doesn’t apply to the private man. It’s becoming clearer to me why Mark doesn’t like using companies.

              Considering this, I am wondering if it might be worth considering whether I should offer to get a DIN without creating a myGovID since there is no law compelling me to get a myGov account. That way I fulfil the requirement to get the number, but don’t get the digital ID.

              I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

              • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  michael-teo.
            • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

              Member
              October 24, 2023 at 9:45 am

              You need to do what works for you, it all leads to deeper understanding whether the choices we make get the result we want or not. If a lawyer/barrister is acting on your behalf, he should be acting on your instruction so make it very clear what you want him to do in court, after all you are paying him are you not?. If you have a private agreement, one option is to ask him to set up a private meeting so it can be settled out of court. A judge will support you doing this as they don’t want to deal with cases that might put them in the firing line for eg a formal complaint for not being impartial (although the lawyer/barristers first loyalty is to the bar and so he is unlikely to hold the judge to account), however you are entitled to put in formal complaints if anyone in this situation doesn’t do their job properly.

            • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

              Member
              October 24, 2023 at 9:47 am

              If they are claiming you have committed a crime then you have the right to meet your accuser and question him/her and also they need to have an affidavit submitted which then would give you the right to rebut it. The claimant has the burden of proof and you have the right to due process.

            • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

              Member
              October 21, 2023 at 10:39 am

              They can state whatever they want (eg we don’t accept liability) but if an agreement is obtained between all parties then that is what stands.

            • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

              Member
              October 21, 2023 at 1:52 pm
            • michael-teo

              Member
              November 7, 2023 at 10:54 am

              I am preparing to send the third round of the Director ID non-consent forms. I have received letters from ASIC and ABRS. ASIC stating that its up to ABRS (read your suggested response to this in another thread).

              However, I was thinking would it be a good idea to turn the ABRS letter into a contract, adding my terms and consideration (BOE)? If so, should I include it in with the third round of keep it separate?

            • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

              Member
              November 7, 2023 at 12:35 pm

              Are you corresponding with ABRS or ASIC? If you are corresponding with ABRS then you could include it in the letter if you are not then once you have turned it into a non negotiable contract you could send it to ABRS.

            • michael-teo

              Member
              November 7, 2023 at 11:32 pm

              I received a letter from both.

              For ASIC, I’ll reply as you suggested “Just send an email thanking them for their reply and state however there are still questions that need to be answered. and ask, Are you advising me that ABRS is the organisation that will have the answers that are needed?”

              For ABRS, I’ll turn it into a non negotiable contract and send it with round 3 of the non-consent forms.

            • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

              Member
              November 8, 2023 at 10:38 am

              I’m not sure but there is a Q and A tonight and you could ask Mark there?…https://solutionsempowerment.org/event/general-qa-november-08/

  • kerry

    Member
    December 1, 2022 at 9:00 am

    That is good info thanks whiteligjt

  • sam-neal

    Member
    December 1, 2022 at 10:05 am

    URGENT

    Hi All, I really KOOKED it and missed the deadline to send off the docs. Do you think it is fruitless to pursue this as the cut off date has expired? I notice it states on the ABRS webpage “The fastest way to apply for a director ID is online. While the deadline to apply for your director ID is 30 November 2022, if you apply by 14 December 2022 we will not take further action in relation to your late application.”

    Please let me know your thoughts on posting them today.

    Many thanks,

    Sam

    • pbcook

      Member
      December 1, 2022 at 12:31 pm

      A friend of ours contacted ASIC asking for an extension, they gave her till Dec 14th so I gather everyone gets it.

      Get that stuff into the post mate!

    • whitelight

      Member
      December 3, 2022 at 9:25 am

      I think it’s still worth doing, Mark confirms in module 70. You’re at least able to state your terms which includes the use of your data/property and send your fee schedule should something go ‘wrong’.

  • kerry

    Member
    December 7, 2022 at 6:17 am

    I hope this question goes to all. I got letter from asic via email. Because they say they deal with abrs, I didn’t reply. Was this correct or should I have replied them? I am sending my second notice to abrs on 13/December. So is it to now just deal with them?

    Thank you .

    • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

      Member
      December 7, 2022 at 6:46 am

      Just send an email thanking them for their reply and state however there are still questions that need to be answered. and ask, Are you advising me that ABRS is the organisation that will have the answers that are needed?

      • Liberty

        Member
        December 7, 2022 at 5:41 pm

        same here. I thanked ASIC for advising me and left it at that. Then sent my letter to ABRS. I will send follow up letter nxt week.

        • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Liberty.
    • Liberty

      Member
      December 7, 2022 at 5:45 pm

      No point in contacting ASIC other than a thanks for the info reply. Its under ABRS jurisdiction now so we liaise with ABRS moving fwd. 😉

      ABRS gave a 2 week extension to the due date so with people refraining from actioning their Dir ID seems to be having a positive result. More of us making a stand is great for all of us.

      • kerry

        Member
        December 8, 2022 at 9:56 pm

        Another question about the Module 70 we downloaded. If this gets updated how do we download it again? just in case there has been changes since 24 November. Can anyone help with an answer?

  • kerry

    Member
    December 8, 2022 at 9:46 pm

    thanks for that. Did anyone at ATO into the letter? I have my second letter and cert of mailing ready to go. I just altered it myself the best I could. But no ATO yet.

    • vas-maleli

      Member
      December 9, 2022 at 9:47 am

      ASIC reply letter to the Conditional Acceptance Notice advised that ABRS is “within the Australian Tax Office” so I am going to leave both ABRS and ATO on the Notices… sent to the one postal address, locked bag 6000, Albury NSW. I’ve missed the 30th Nov deadline so I will alter my first notice to ABRS “…agree to forward… personal information… by 14th December 2022…” I was also thinking there’s no need to follow-up ASIC with a Default Notice, although I’m going to send it anyway, along with the Final Notice, just to complete that process, since ASIC says they are responsible for the “…enforcement of penalties…”

  • whitelight

    Member
    December 11, 2022 at 11:17 pm

    Surely we can get off the hook on the below reference alone:
    s1272C (http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s1272c.html)

    (1) An eligible officer must have a director identification number.

    “officer” , in relation to a registered foreign company, includes a local agent of the foreign company

    (Ref: http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s416.html#officer)

    • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

      Member
      December 12, 2022 at 8:33 am

      It’s definitely a question worth asking in your Notices. That is putting this information into the form of a question eg Does it not state in the regulations you are bound by blah blah blah.

      • whitelight

        Member
        December 14, 2022 at 12:23 pm

        I would but I send my final notice on 27 December, can I be amending it now, or should the notice remain consistent?

        • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

          Member
          December 14, 2022 at 7:44 pm

          If you’ve sent your final Notice then you don’t have to worry. Just have the information there up your sleeve and maybe ask these questions if you are ever made to attend court.

    • pbcook

      Member
      December 21, 2022 at 8:26 am

      Whitelight, do you think this definition of “officer” only applies to foreign companies?

      “foreign company” means:

      (a) a body corporate that is incorporated in an external Territory, or outside Australia and the external Territories, and is not:

      (i) a corporation sole; or

      (ii) an exempt public authority; or

      Coz that would make absolutely no sense at all!

      Look forward to your thoughts.

  • kerry

    Member
    December 29, 2022 at 8:28 pm

    Hi there, has anyone heard anything back from abrs? My smsf tax agent said he has been notified that fines will be issued soon. It is concerning me. I have sent my third notice.

  • quantumx

    Member
    January 11, 2023 at 12:56 am

    Sent my third notice 2 weeks ago ONLY to ASIC. Yesterday I tried to get a JP at “Australia Fair” shopping centre in Southport QLD to sign the 4th mail in with the affidavit. He said he would not sign it as it was not going to a court. I held back from grilling him as he’s a volunteer helping me. He was either lying or just didn’t know as Blacks 1st Ed. says otherwise (see attached). I will go to the JP in Runaway Bay shortly instead. That JP also said he performed some sort of legal duty working for the ATO in his working life. He also became rather angry and flustered when I started asking him about the Judicature ACT 1886 etc. I kept backing down though as grumpy old men don’t change their minds easily.

    • morag-janet-of-the-hill-family

      Member
      January 11, 2023 at 7:03 am

      Most JPs don’t know very much so if they are instructed by the PTB to behave unlawfully they don’t realise or believe the instruction is unlawful. The PTB are very crafty because they know if they don’t put the order in writing the liability for damage to you is on the JPs head. You could take in the job description for the JP and ask to see the evidence that a document needs to be going to court before they can sign it. Have some examples of s witnessing things that do not go to court to gently def your position. Another thing you could take is a liability waiver for the JP. However finding another jp is a good option too.

  • kerry

    Member
    January 11, 2023 at 6:10 pm

    Hi there,

    I have been locked out and only just got back in. I thought I had another week to get affidavit in. Time slipped away! Did anyone get their cert of mailing 1/2/and 3 witnessed as it says in the affidavit? I didn’t see that instruction! So I just signed them myself. I have had no word from abrs. After the affidavit the invoice gets sent? I’m finding it difficult to follow the instructions! Also the affidavit layout is confusing me. Has anyone changed the layout? . lots of questions. Has anyone had any word from abrs or any emails from their tax agent.

    • quantumx

      Member
      January 12, 2023 at 7:00 am

      Apparently police have said in court they have received the registered post, but there was nothing in it. Thus the reason we include a certificate of mailing witnessed by a third party is so that the entity receiving our mail can not say it was empty. I have sometimes gone to the extent of video recording my witness signing the cert of mailing, inserting the docs and sealing the envelope. Mark says a video is an affidavit / evidence in court. I have used video as evidence in court.
      The instructions say to include an invoice with each of the 3 mail outs. Unfortunately they were all in one document in the template Mark created. Apparently this is important, but I don’t exactly know why.
      You can start a process again if you haven’t done it properly. It’s a lot of work though.

  • kerry

    Member
    January 12, 2023 at 7:56 am

    I found the instructions very confusing maybe I didn’t get the uodated version. Did anyone else not get a witness to sign? . there was only one place to sign so I thought it was for me to sign. Can someone add their experience? I feel I’ve screwed up big time….. Massive anxiety!