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Signing All Rights Reserved
Hey guys,
Mark talks a lot about using a “by” line and All Rights Reserved when signing things.
Can someone explain to me what this actually does other than just “it reserves your rights”? Or better yet, point me to a resource where I can learn more about it myself?
I just can’t get my head around how someone signs a public document like a license (which is for the dead) and reserves their rights (which is for the living) I just don’t understand how it would hold weight when you are still entering into contract that is designed to have you waive your rights.
Also, mark says the “by” means “by accommodation” – What does this actually mean?
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14 Replies
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From what I heard Mark say the by is because you are living and therefore you are the “by”.
The reserve your right part is because you reserve your rights within the agreement/contract.
Could be more to it but that is my understanding of it.
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You’ll find your answer if you read this
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Today I went to Bendigo Bank to open a personal transaction account. I signed the contract All Rights Reserved and the account was opened. I was also foresightful enough to scan the contract with my phone.
About half an hour later a guy, who I am assuming is the bank manager, rang me questioning the signature. He was really angry! I held my position and he had to concede that I had the right to sign however I chose.
However he then asked me a question and I wasn’t sure how to respond: “Is this just how you sign you name or does the line under your name have legal meaning? I need to put this in my notes.” He said that if the ARR has “legal meaning” that it would be in his discretion not to open the account (the account is already opened). He also asked me if I had read the privacy disclose (which I did) and mentioned that he can’t have me reserving my rights since the bank has to reserve their rights in contracts they have with other parties. I didn’t follow up on that. He ended up making a few angry statements and hanging up on me. I’m expecting that he will close the account in the near future.
My question is how do we respond to that question? I couldn’t think of a question on the spot to turn it back on him. Since he asked the question as I dichotomy and as a condition of his allowing the account to be opened I assume that answering that it is just how I sign would eliminate my ability to rely on the ARR in any future communications/court case etc.
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This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by michael-teo. Reason: added more information
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I don’t usually answer questions about my right to sign in the way I see fit, but is it not my right to protect myself when signing any agreement or contract?
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Yes, thank you. That is the best approach (and something I do know about but it just didn’t occur to me in the moment)… The thing that threw me was that he asked the question as an “either/or”.
Looking at my accounts online, the amount I put into it has been transferred out and the account has been closed.
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Excellent! That is what you wanted?
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I actually wanted the account opened, but to have signed the contract ARR. So, I might need to either try another branch or another bank.
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Have you filled out a statutory declaration for change of signature? If you take that in to the next bank you might not have so much trouble. Also did you change your signature on your license? Our bank has never worried about the ARR signature.
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No I haven’t, but it’s not been bumped up to the top of the to do list.
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This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by
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Thanks Morag-Janet. You are always so helpful.
I actually signed my license using all rights reserved but didn’t put my title case name on it (I didn’t realise you were supposed to put your title case name on there when I did this months ago). Will this hold any weight? E.g below
By: My strawman signature
All Rights Reserved
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i know there was a channel describing the signature that way and I suppose it would be ok, but I think Mark’s recommendations just make it a little more solid. If you want to update it when you renew your license, just do a statutory declaration for change of signature.
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Hi all.
I just went to Service NSW to get my driver license renewed. I went to sign my signature, which happens to contain the word All-Rights-Reserved and they rejected me. Went to another Service NSW Centre… rejected again. Same rhetoric from them both. “We can’t accept anything other than a name signature, no add ons etc.” I explained it’s not an add on, showed them my stat dec and bank cards, proving it’s my signature. I reminded them that a signed stat dec stands in law with the same weight as if it was signed by a magistrate. They tried to refund me but I declined and reminded them that as they have accepted payment, the contract was complete and they were in breach of the contract. I think they may have just credited my Service NSW account though. Regardless, they wouldn’t budge, and kept saying “Transport NSW won’t let us accept it” and apparently that is where their authority to determine how I sign my name comes from.
They wouldn’t give me a receipt for the payment, but it’s visible on my bank statement. I have all the application paperwork, including the little slip I signed with the ARR signature which was destined (or not) for the card. I have the clerk names, and the date and time of the events.
So, Transport NSW. I could write to them and start some kind of administrative process or formal complaint, or perhaps go straight to the ombudsman. I’m wondering what the format of this correspondence should take. A notice? What kind of notice? Is my argument based solely on the fact that I need to see evidence of their authority to dictate how I sign my name in a contract?
I would really love some guidance or words of wisdom. Thanks in advance, crew!
transportnsw.info
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Sounds like you did well and did all the right things! Things look even better for you if they don’t return your payment within 72 hours and haven’t made good (defaulted) on their part of the contract.
So I think there’s a couple of things you could do but I would put both Service NSW and Transport NSW on notice (maybe address to the CEO’s?). Write in the notice a brief outline of what occured, the names of the clerks and what date and time it happened, just so they know the details of the event were well documented.
Notice and demand for Further Particulars or Else Notice to Show Cause (or something to that effect)
-Demand they provide evidence that they have the authority to reject your signature or direct how you sign your name. Attach your stat dec as an attachment to your notice. Maybe even attach a copy of the forms you signed etc to show you have those as evidence.
-Demand they provide evidence they have the authority to charge you for a service that they did not deliver (could even attach a snapshot of that transaction in your bank statement as an attachment to your notice).
-Demand they provide evidence that they have the authority to refuse to give you a receipt for your payment (there would be a piece of legislation somewhere that says a receipt has to be issued if a buyer requests it so put that in there – Maybe tax act?)
State that failure to provide such evidence by way of sworn affidavit will be construed as Service NSW and NSW Transport’s agreement to be charged $500 per day for every day that goes by where you are not allowed to sign your true and correct signature on your license (or something to that affect).
Do the 3 notice process. Then send them 3 notices of demand for payment with accompanying invoices. Then can do a creditors statutory demand for payment of debt (there is a webinar on this). Also watch and purchase knowing how to hold your position module (i purchased it and It’s well worth it in my opinion. Shit loads of good info and templates for this stuff.)
That’s how I would approach it but someone with a little more experience may hopefully chime in and tweak it or have a better idea.
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Hi Brandon. Thanks for the response. I’ve drafted a Notice. I’ll send it over to you and share my learnings on the forum—when I have some.
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