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Infringement Payment thru BOE
I have posted this question in the Driving group as well, since I still need to get used to the new structure but seeking for some advice here: I just got off the phone with the Department of Transport and Main Roads here in Queensland. I had written the circumstances previously on the old website but it seems it has not been migrated over. So, I got an infringement issued by the police. I converted the Notice into a contract and a statement of account within 3 days, included a Bill of Exchange and sent it back to TMR via registered mail. I also sent a letter to the commissioner of SPER to oversee this transaction, just like Mark explained it in the webinar. I have not heard anything back within the 2 weeks I gave them time to collect they payment (neither did they say they dont accept, nor did they send the BOE back). The payment of the liability was due last Friday around noon time. I was at the location written on my BOE (I have photographic evidence with timestamp and location) and asked everyone who going in and out of the shop if they would be from the Department and if they are here to collect my payment. So in short the Department did not show up.
So I called TMR just now and asked for the status of my notice, since I have done everything to discharge the liability. The Lady on the phone did initially not know what I was talking about, and it went back and forth. She said that the Department only accepts the payments on the back of the Infringement Notice, on which I replied that a BOE is a perfect legal payment and it was not explicitly excluded. And then I insisted again that from my side the liability is discharged. She then asked if I can hold the line for a minute and I guess she was talking to someone from legal or her supervisor. When she got back to me she read a predefined sentence where she said that TMR only accepts the payments on the back of the infringement notices and if I would like to pay this with a different method, than I have to go back to the issuing authority (the police) and discuss that with them. It looks like this whole police / TMR / SPER is set up just to push the responsibilities around. So I asked her that the Police is only the issuing authority but TMR is collecting the liability, isn’t it? She refused to answer and repeated her sentence. I then asked if I can have this in written form, which she refused. So I asked her if she can point me to a TMR web site where I can read this up, else wise I have to assume she just makes this up. She refused that as well and I repeated my statement again. She seemed to get upset and then just hang up on me. So from my side all should be done, nonetheless I guess I will receive another message from SPER again where they do exactly the same thing again. What would be the best way to move forward. Should I actively write to TMR or wait once I get another message from the Government and then respond accordingly?
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This discussion was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by
joerg-m.
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This discussion was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by
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21 Replies
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<hr>BILLS OF EXCHANGE ACT 1909 – SECT 48Dishonour by non-acceptance and its consequences
(1) A bill is dishonoured by non-acceptance:
(a) when it is duly presented for acceptance, and such an acceptance as is prescribed by this Act is refused or cannot be obtained; or
(b) when presentment for acceptance is excused, and the bill is not accepted.
(2) Subject to the provisions of this Act, when a bill is dishonoured by non-acceptance, an immediate right of recourse against the drawer and indorsers accrues to the holder, and no presentment for payment is necessary.
BILLS OF EXCHANGE ACT 1909 – SECT 48
Dishonour by non-acceptance and its consequences
(1) A bill is dishonoured by non-acceptance:(a) when it is duly presented for acceptance, and such an acceptance as is prescribed by this Act is refused or cannot be obtained; or
(b) when presentment for acceptance is excused, and the bill is not accepted.
(2) Subject to the provisions of this Act, when a bill is dishonoured by non-acceptance, an immediate right of recourse against the drawer and indorsers accrues to the holder, and no presentment for payment is necessary.
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Thanks for the information. I simply printed out the key sections as provided in the Module and attached them to my response.
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Totally forgot to thank you for your reply. I have sent the response to TMR. In the meanwhile I got a response from the QPS (Queensland Police Service) as well. They totally ignored my payment, not even mentioning it, but focus only on my my created contract and that they do not agree to it, since I did not choose to bring my case in front of a court.
I have responded with the same letter but also added a kind of cover letter, which I took from the webinar, Creating a contract under your terms. I told them that they disregarded my payment entirely, and for my understanding the payment is done. I mentioned that they have failed to return the BOE within 72h as well as let me know if there is something wrong with it as outlined in my Default and Liability clauses. The only thing I am not sure about is to whom I have addressed it. I tried to find the General manager for QPS but found only the board members and thru Linkedin a Executive Director which looked for me as the one who at least partially runs the business. I also added a clause, that if they decide to forward the infringement notice to SPER which might lead to the suspension of my drivers license that they agree to pay 10,000 Dollar per day, payable within 7 days for the time of the suspension till the suspension is lifted.
I am really convinced that this whole its not me but them charade is set up to confuse people and makes it harder to grab them and hold them accountable.
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Can anyone confirm who the Registrar and Accounts Manager for SPER Queensland is?
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I have sent my notice of payment to Mark Jackson, Commissioner of Queensland Revenue Office and Registrar of the State Penalties Enforcement Registry.
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Thank you
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Last Friday I got a letter from SPER (more than a month after I have sent my Notice of payment). They completely ignored my temp. appointment of Mark Jackson to oversee my payment process but just said that the infringement notice have not been submitted to SPER as of now and that I would need to contact the issuing authorities for further information. It is really astonishing that any of these government authorities pretend that nothing they get is of their concern, they issue warnings and fines and when you contact them, they pretend it was not me but them, so I cant help you. What also astonishes me is the amount and effort they are willing to put in to pursue this 180 Dollar I allegedly owe them. They have spend already several hundreds of Dollar in pursuing this and I am sure it will be more. Any business having this practice would go bankrupt in no time and only because they have endless supply of tax money, they can do it. So they use the tax money I have already paid to purse my alleged liability. Ironic if you see it from that angle.
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Did you ring them and ask for the name of the wo/man you want to send the correspondence to?
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The 2nd response (refusal to accept payment) has been sent to TMR and QPS. For TMR I was using the managing director taken from the form you provided. For QPS I was looking for a managing director or general manager. I was not able to find someone with this exact job title but I found an executive director of the QPS which I have sent the letter to. His name is Paul Friedman and was the one which popped up when I looked for managing director Queensland Police Service.
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Sounds good.
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Just right before my deadline would end tonight (5pm) I go t a letter from the Queensland Revenue Office, which is nothing else than the QPS in disguise if they want to collect your money. I guess it is the response to my my letter I have sent them. As written in the letter, I instructed them to send me the response by registered mail and any other correspondence will be send back. Of course the letter came with regular post. Question is, should I open it or send it back as I was stating in my letter to the QPS?
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The choice is yours. I received a letter once from a lawyer in reply to a three step notice I was completing. I decided to open it as I thought whatever it was I could deal with. Here’s a copy of that letter and it stopped any further correspondence from that party. You can return it with a reminder that any reply not sent by registered mail is considered a non reply or you can answer it as I did.
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I opened up the letter, and it basically says that they have “reviewed” my response but declined to alter their decision. Again they did not even mention my BOE payment but only claim that my contract is not accepted since I did not choose to challenge this in court.
My thought is to respond to them and asking them for evidence where I have challenged the decision. Did I not accept the infringement notice with honour and only completed the incomplete instrument (by converting it into a contract). With no words did I actually claim anything different.
So I thought to convert this writing in the same fashion into a complete instrument, then write an affidavit and get a stamp from a JP and send it back, emphasising once more if they go ahead and suspend my driver license knowing that I have paid, never returned my BOE or let me know that it would be faulty, that they agree to pay 10,000 Dollar per day for the time being of he suspension. I guess ultimately they still will not accept that and go ahead with the suspension. The question is then how can I resolve this ultimately. I would need to bring this in front of a court, not because of the infringement notice but their non acknowledgement of my payment. Else wise they would simply suspend it and ignore any further correspondence. This also begs the question, if QPS and TMR ignores their own statutes and acts why should I do so? -
There are many ways you could respond, what you are suggesting sounds good. If they still suspend then you better start preparing for court and learning about the trickery of judges. They may say they (the judge and court) don’t recognise your processes so you have to know what to answer eg “You may not recognise them but I do and doesn’t your BOE Act say dah dah dah” It’s about learning to hold your position in the correct manner no matter what gets thrown at you. Remember to record everything you do so you have evidence you followed the correct processes and that they did not. If they suspend you could potentially travel without and show the paperwork if you are challenged. These are all chess moves and you have to work out your best next move.
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Do you happen to know if I can hold these managing directors or who ever is in charge of these departments personally liable? I mean I have send my estoppel to them personally, so if they fail to produce the evidence it should be possible to not only go after the department but also the one in charge for co-conspiring.
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There is a Q and A webinar on Wednesday Night with Mark answering any questions, if you ask your questions there you may get information you can use to tackle this issue. You can rsvp here http://solutionsempowerment.org/event/qa-september-14/#rsvp-now
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Seems to me as a retired banker, that if the “fine” is nothing more than an invitation to do business with them then they can specify how to pay which could include pigs, goats, chickens or anything they want and you either accept that or decline to contract with them.
On the other hand, if it is to discharge a debt, then they must take any lawful form of currency, including a BOE and, if you sent them one and they kept it then they have accepted payment for the debt and the debit is discharged, but if they send the BOE back to you then they have refused payment for the debt so the debt is now wiped clean!
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Thanks Jeff. Yepp, they have neither sent the BOE back or let me know what would potentially wrong with it.
I guess they learn from previous mistakes as well. The QPS is not saying that they dont accept this type if payment, but instead they pretend that they have not received any so far, although I was sending already a time sensitive estoppel. They just pretend that I didn’t do it. As mentioned I will send them anther letter with an affidavit, where I will write down all the points they fail to provide, including that they have not returned my BOE thus the discharge is completed.
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I have finally set up my Affidavit and letter to the managing Director of QPS. Do you happen to know how it called, when a company requests 2x for the same “service”. Is this fraud or what other legal term could I use in this case. I tried to find something online but it only found cases where a company offers services and cannot deliver, or where someone paid and there was no service.
