cherax
Forum Replies Created
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Interesting, I picked up on that also, I have been digging through material of his since posting, and have found other questionable things. Not saying he has not had these successes, but I was about to put a caution DYOR note out. An element of fear and urgency are also evident in his podcasts, and not much else for folks to use. Cheers for investigating this also, its great to have others eyes and perspectives on the different movements and actors in the space.
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Well done Melissa. Correspondence is the best option, engaging on your terms.
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If you haven’t made accounts elsewhere they just write a bank cheque for amount and post it to you.
We are just arranging trust and foundation account at other banks. Would like to see the Australia Post People’s Bank get established. Folks should be getting behind Robbie Barwick on this one I believe.
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Hi Brian, I made contact with ATO last week responding to a letter sent, to find out what they required to complete my assessment for 2023. The agent stated that there was some income on the lodgement form (Less than the $18200 threshold) she then asked me would I like to remove the income so they could finalise the assessment, i asked WHY, would they zero it ,if it is below threshold anyway, and I would still get payg payments back. Unless they are looking for a reason to audit folks.
It seems a bit strange. Not sure what these guys are up to.
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Hi all, I have just received registered mail from westpac, notifying us that after careful consideration and a review (hahaha), that they will not be providing services for all of our accounts (7) including investment property loan, NR Foundation and NR Trust + Business accounts etc. After more than 40 years of patronage. I cant imagine what we have done wrong. (more hahas’) Time to move on and see who wants some business.
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Good work.👍
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Thanks I will ask Mark.
I have found the form for ATO. SMSF.https://www.ato.gov.au/uploadedFiles/Content/IND/Downloads/Self-managed-superannuation-fund-annual-return-2023.pdf
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I have just extracted files from the trust zip folder again and found #3 is an invoice and #5 is a purchase agreement template. not sure why not visible before, or I didn’t extract files properly!
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Has anyone been tested by ATO seeking CGT, when transferring assets from SMSF (when age eligible) directly into a trust? Would a declaration of contribution be necessary or prudent to have on hand to provide evidence of the transfer of assets from a SMSF and provide proof of contribution. Or is it a case of wait until they make the assertion and question the jurisdiction.
I noted Mark mentioned to make small contributions to avoid the spotlight.
Thoughts appreciated
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I have set up both, My take on it after conversing with Peter Duff is, a Foundation can not hold titles or certificates, Mark also mentions this, There are 2 foundations he offers that are non reg, one is family foundation, and the other is more suited for regular trading with other folks maybe. Both of these can transact and supply services in the private, for the benefit of the community it serves, but i think they can only transact in currency. I have allocations of metals but only for trusts (not foundation) on an bullion exchange in a (personal) account. As I am trustee for the trust I can move or invest or sell on behalf of the trust. (own nothing but control everything). these assets are written into the minutes of the trust fund. as the owner of the asset, even though they are on an exchange. Where did you read that a foundation can receive or hold PMs etc? You probably could accept physical gold and silver into foundation privately (not from an organization unless you paid cash and picked them up with a certificate) but if they are in your possession, who other than beneficiaries needs to know? You just write it into the minutes, and stash it under a rock. :0 With respect to moving between trust and foundation, Its completely private, its just documented in minutes and transferred (currency bank to bank) although Peter D told me to make your Foundation a beneficiary of the trust, Im not sure thats completely necessary as all of it is in the private anyway and the less links between your different buckets the better. My opinion only, I could be corrected on some of this info. still learning.
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Yes I agree with your points Morag, and I think I have got most of that covered in the agreement I have constructed. But after going through the tenancy disputes Q&A and other information, the clarification I was looking for was, are we compelled or is it prudent to engage an external body to mediate dispute, or determine rules.
In some example documents have stated points like:
<i class=””>*This Agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of [STATE].
<i class=””>*Any dispute arising out of this Agreement shall be resolved by mediation in accordance with the rules of the Australian Mediation Association.
Does that now engage the public realm? If not allgood, and If its standard practice, then I can just leave it out of the document. Just thought I would put it out there.
It might be a Q for the next Q&A.
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Hi Tarei I am missing the purchase and invoice templates also from my package, I have emailed a couple of times but no response as yet, Mark is obviously very busy. I have been looking through all other places on the website to find a filled image to copy from. Let me know if you get a hold of them.🙂
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For anyone setting up bank accounts.
I have just set up 2 accounts with Wpac for a NRTrust. The purpose of trust was asset protection.
The date of establishment we used as date of registration (this box used for registered trust). ABN TFN question was answered with n/a. The application was done in bank, I could not see onsceen what other boxes or options were clicked by clerk. A quiet and confident approach is best.
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Hi Twiggy. A dex is a completely online exchange (not geographically bound, no country or gov regulation) you cannot onboard with fiat, you have to own crypto first, but you can come back to fiat with a card or an app like “STABLES card” If you are using NR Trust and you can hold position some of the CEXs like coinspot have a debit card facility as well.
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Very interesting explanation of Office of Executor in Alex’s stream last night Here’s the link to the recording if you missed it. https://www.bitchute.com/video/yjk1QCl8nzN7/
bitchute.com
"Office of the Executor" 27.06.24
PART 1- Proclamation of the Establishment of the Office 0.00 Trust Law 0.02 Trust Accounts & Barcodes 0.04 The Beneficiary role 0.05 The Office of the Executor 0.08 What does it do? 0.10 Authority to use the trust account name? … Continue reading
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I have been digging around today looking for it myself. Its got to be accessible, if they are asking folks have they completed it?
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Hey there QLDer, how’s things up there? I never quite made it up your way last year, my old man celebrated his 103rd year on this planet so I went back to say Gday. We have spoken of deeds etc before eh, Thanks for the reminder, I had decided to go on the premise that, the arrangement is all done in OUR realm and documented in OUR minutes , therefore its only relevant to us, so I will cross that bridge later eh. Isnt it weird we play these mind games to try and justify our argument or position. Its a testament to how well the programming of us in school and society etc worked.
SO you have found a DEX you can on and offboard to fiat without KYC have you mate ? You better share that little nugget. 😉
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Yes, very true. I have a list of notes and responses and those mentioned are amongst them. Thankyou.
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Hi morag, Absolutely agree, it is outside their jurisdiction. The distinction was between using existing exchange connected accounts with history they have, against setting up fresh bank to exchange rails. My thoughts were, its less likely to have reason for ato to even make contact. When I stated It hadn’t been tested, I meant I have not had to hold position on that yet & I am not sure as to how we prove our contributions from personal ownership to Trust ownership other than minutes we keep, which we are not obligated to divulge anyway. what are your thoughts on that, do we even need to provide a deed of contribution, or do we just direct them to prove that it is NOT whatever we deem it to be? Is there any necessity to provide evidence of change of ownership at all? I have not seen anything related to this in Q&As . The reason this is different is, most other asset classes have a regulated body that keep records eg shares, real estate, bullion etc, and where there is a ownership change there is a change in title and the taxman can see that. Crypto is very different as it is decentralized and you hold the keys so they dont see any ownership change within a wallet you control.
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I use Binance exchange, I just made a contribution of my crypto holdings to our non registered trust, wrote it in the minutes then continued to trade using my personal account, which I was already trading with, but now I’m trading as the trustee on behalf of Trust. This has not been through a financial year so has not been tested. There may be some questions asked as the ATO have the KYC info and address from when it was personal holdings. If you are starting fresh then that may prove to be less messy for you to defend. They are an international company, but Coinspot is here in oz and they told me they can set up a NRTrust if you want, no abn required and you can load up on it with AUD, (unlike binance). Good luck your just in time for the bull market.
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Completely agree, and they are keeping the intimidation and fear of consequence very real for the average compliant public out there. Alex has a great way of explaining how the system conned us too.
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I originally thought so, but I have now found the following. With respect to the SMSF it appears it is a Specific form also, however it requires an audit from an entity registered with ASIC. so I may have to keep that return in the hands of the accountant.
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No, there were lots of questions ahead of me. If I can find the admin email I will ask again.
I just modified my own documents to use, and then completely forgot about the templates.
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Hi Rebecca. No I havent. Mark is doing Q&A tonight I will ask.
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Fantastic Thankyou Morag.
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Does anybody have any examples of the “notice of payment document” for the ATO in particular, when paying by P/N? I’m not clear on what wording needs to be included in the document body, as the examples in p/n pack describe banking loan terminology not a tax liability. I am also looking for a position for my TFN within the document. thought id throw it out there while I continue scanning the Q&As and posts.
Thanks.
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Well done Brian. good to hear of another recent favorable outcome, I’m currently in process of a P/N for liability with these pirates also. Agree with your Article today on the French, Nice work Its interesting Frederic Bastiat wrote a book “the Law”mid 1800s in that country about the same subject, a lot of revolt history in that country eh. Brilliant book too by the way.
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Ok. Thankyou very much for checking it over.
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Hi All
I have an approach for my PAYG matter. I am sending a conditional acceptance. Anything missing?
Is a declaration to go with this?
Thanks.
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Sorry I thought I deleted that line and image before posting.
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That is interesting, I had not come across that info in the KYR material.
I have just got a message back from Coinspot. which sounds promising.
Thank you for reaching out.
If the trust does not have an ABN or an ACN, you will be able to bypass this. By selecting the sub account type of ‘trust’ when creating the business account, this will allow you to bypass providing an ABN/ACN as we understand not all trusts have an ABN associated. Should you require any further assistance or have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.which sounds promising.
Kind Regards, -
Cheers for that Miket, its a good option, I assume they are accepting Non Reg trust.
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Thanks Morag
Im still unsure whether to fight this payg amount of $1400 based on the fact that I will get It all back anyway, I just dont want to give It to them in case they hold it against the larger amount they are trying to plunder from me haha
Is the conditional acceptance used the Estoppel? as I have also seen the notice of demand form
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Have spoken with ATO now and have a verbal acknowledgment that they are escalating my amendment of 2021 form. However they still maintain that I owe them 2 instalments of PAYG even though I have no wages (different matter). I do not want to pay this but I am not wanting to be dishonorable in their eyes either. I now am contemplating conditional acceptance based on their decision to put me onto a quarterly PAYG plan without my consent. we will see what comes back, while waiting for the amendment reply. They have given me the option to clear all 19k debt in one payment, maybe a P/N with the statement of account that they have sent me, is my best option for that but still studying that module, It would have been nice to have got some practice on smaller matters before tackling that one with all the fish hooks as you say. 🙂
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I have received an account in arrears notice now, but I think I may have missed the rebuttal stage. Although I have made an apology for an error. My process so far has been to seek some engagement to collect data for my arsenal but the department just marches on unabated. I have not received any purposeful response to any individual request.
Details
Made an alleged gain in assets (swapped not sold)
Accounting firm submitted return including the alleged gain
Statement sent to me with alleged obligation to pay
Payment plan entered to buy time.
Payment plan commenced
Payments ceased
Notice sent (by self)request for clarification (no profit-swap not sale)
Amended tax form sent (by self)
incoming phone call attempted
Notice sent to request mail correspondence (by self)
Arrears statement received
Should I rebut the acceptance of the original liability to move forward?
Any thoughts ?
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Hi Laura ,well done for persisting , the clerks often don’t fully comprehend the structure and purpose. I fortunately struck a good one. I asked her to explain the difference between foundation bank accounts and Trust accounts according to her guidelines (at Wpac) so i could share it with you guys that have set up accounts, and also for those that are still in the process. As I have set up both, I noticed the difference in Holder names on statements and cards.
The explanation is this:
* With the Foundation you are members of the foundation, so the Entity is the Foundation.
* When it comes to trust accounts the Trustees are the owners of the accounts and are therefore opened in the Trustees name.
My take on this is, the Trust has the trustees (names) that bridge to the public realm. The Foundation is the Entity that bridges to the public realm. Hope this explains why there is a difference in opening these accounts. It is only my interpretation.
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Most of my holdings are in cold storage offline anyway. what I’m researching/contemplating is whether I stay on a personal crypto exchange account which already has KYC (know your client govt overreach) to convert back to $ and put surplus into NR Foundation (which ato will see). Or set up exchange account under NR trust name do the KYC personally again as trustee,(controller). As the bank account is under NRT name , from there it could be flicked over to NRF also, then its a fresh start and all previous papertrail with pirates will go cold. I’m thinking this is best option. This would be the same consideration if trading shares on ASX exchange I assume, you operate it from within the NRT. Just exploring at the moment eh.
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Thanks for your help Morag.
They actually just tried to ring me just before I read this, and I let it go, so as to respond to them by mail, (that I had received a sms from them to converse by phone) but my preference is to request all correspondence by mail. The fact that they have attempted contact possibly means they are reviewing the amendment i sent, or to tell me I have missed a few plan payments.
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Thanks for the explanation.
All I have done to date is filled out an amended tax form, reducing the taxable amount to eliminate the $ amount that was asset flipped including an explanation on the form ( I should have removed all the crypto gains as income) this was on the 20-4-23. I have also requested and received a statement of account, as I had earlier agreed to a payment plan, but the 72 hours has lapsed as I was expecting the amended form to be responded to, before I decided whether to convert SOA to an invoice. That is why I was looking for the 3 step process. I will need that eventually anyway. Its been a month now & I’m uncertain whether to start a process or wait for form to be responded to. What are you thoughts?
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Hi Morag. I have the module 2 now but not sure whether i need to wait until ATO responds to my amended form (excluded my unrealized gain) so I have something to work with (which was 30 days ago) ? Also should I have purchased module 19 that you mentioned to Brian ,that includes the 3 step process , then questioning their authority to deem an asset to asset swap, a return to fiat and taxable?
I am churning through all material I can find to sort which method to use
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Great, that’s what i need thankyou
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Yes actually, Im not sure I interpreted that right. I have a non reg foundation and it definitely cannot hold title and be used in public commerce.
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Thanks for that.
Interesting, it appears Mark (or someone) may be suggesting trading is best done through a non reg foundation. will investigate this also. There are lots of options available it seems trialing them gains the knowledge.
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Hi All
I have returned an amended tax return adjusting down the taxable amount, with note that original figure included non taxable amounts. Requested also a statement of account, which was sent as I refused to use MYGOV. (also requested all future correspondence and notifications to be mailed.
Followed up with a notice/explanation of why the amount was non taxable. (swap value for value no profit realized.) No response as yet, Are the documents of conditional acceptance in minimizing tax pack as well as information on rebuttals?
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Good point, thanks for the reminder.
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Thanks for the response, totally agree on the value for value exchange of asset, and the absurd deeming it a sale and imaginary return to fiat for their gain. Its most likely the angle I should take first. but that may get into an interpretation loop and i would have to win that argument first. May be less resistance with the wrongly declared income statement and hope it just gets amended without questioning the details. If I get resistance then play the prove its not a simple value for value exchange and not actually income, and then hold ground.
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Hi Chuggles. What is the approach for this on tax amendment form ? State that you wrongly entered that you had a capital gain, or wrongly declared an asset you converted to another asset was a sale, and therefore a gain? I dont want to get into the weeds of detail. The issue seems to be I engaged a Crypto tax company that is also trying to stay compliant with the regulators and now they also have all my information. Trying to pick the right wording to not raise a red flag their end.
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Ok thanks. My personal returns have been bundled with my company tax and completed by an ato compliant accountant. FY22 returns are about to be sent to me for review before lodgment. I take it that they get submitted before I make amendment to Fy21 and clear up the error personally (without accountant).
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Hi chuggles.
What do you mean by usual paperwork for claiming losses?
