[michael-teo]

Webinar: Dramatically Improve Your Settlement Success Rates By Knowing How To Hold Your Position
https://solutionsempowerment.org/webinar-dramatically-improve-your-settlement-success-rates-by-knowing-how-to-hold-your-position/

solutionsempowerment.org

Access Restricted (Not an Active Member) – SolutionsEmpowerment.org

Access Restricted (Not an Active Member) – SolutionsEmpowerment.org

[michael-teo]

Ah yes, you’re right. I don’t have the ANZ example in the module documents I purchased, but it is in the promissory note folder of the two day workshop, which seems to have additional documents.

[michael-teo]

Thanks for that.

So when signing as the director of a company would we sign like this? :

By: <Your Name>

Director <Company Name Pty Ltd> (ATF <Trust name>)

All rights Reserved.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by  michael-teo.

[michael-teo]

What I would like to know, though, is how do we sign on behalf of a company on other documents such as “Letter Of Appointment”, “Default & Liability”, “Notice Of Payment” etc.?

@morag-janet-of-the-hill-family might know this.

Can we still sign “All Rights Reserved” if signing as a director of a company? I would assume that “By <Your Name>, Director <Company name Pty Ltd>, All Rights Reserved” does not really separate the living man from the “Director”.

[michael-teo]

I would think that you appoint the CFO, who is currently Janine Bristow, as fiduciary.

You can sign the PN as yourself since anyone can discharge any debt, it doesn’t have to be the debtor.

[michael-teo]

This are some really basic questions, but in the checklist, there is:

• Purple water based stamp pad (for thumb print)
• Red pen (bold)

I am assuming that this means that all of the signatures are to be signed in red. Is this correct?

Where does the thumb print go? Is this like a BOE where the thumb print goes next to the signature? Does the signature have to touch/go through the thumb print or does it not make a difference?

[michael-teo]

Thank you Morag. I have messaged Zoltan and hope that there is a solution to this matter.

[michael-teo]

I received a letter from both.

For ASIC, I’ll reply as you suggested “Just send an email thanking them for their reply and state however there are still questions that need to be answered. and ask, Are you advising me that ABRS is the organisation that will have the answers that are needed?”

For ABRS, I’ll turn it into a non negotiable contract and send it with round 3 of the non-consent forms.

[michael-teo]

I am preparing to send the third round of the Director ID non-consent forms. I have received letters from ASIC and ABRS. ASIC stating that its up to ABRS (read your suggested response to this in another thread).

However, I was thinking would it be a good idea to turn the ABRS letter into a contract, adding my terms and consideration (BOE)? If so, should I include it in with the third round of keep it separate?

[michael-teo]

No I haven’t, but it’s not been bumped up to the top of the to do list.

[michael-teo]

I actually wanted the account opened, but to have signed the contract ARR. So, I might need to either try another branch or another bank.

[michael-teo]

Yes, thank you. That is the best approach (and something I do know about but it just didn’t occur to me in the moment)… The thing that threw me was that he asked the question as an “either/or”.

Looking at my accounts online, the amount I put into it has been transferred out and the account has been closed.

[michael-teo]

Today I went to Bendigo Bank to open a personal transaction account. I signed the contract All Rights Reserved and the account was opened. I was also foresightful enough to scan the contract with my phone.

About half an hour later a guy, who I am assuming is the bank manager, rang me questioning the signature. He was really angry! I held my position and he had to concede that I had the right to sign however I chose.

However he then asked me a question and I wasn’t sure how to respond: “Is this just how you sign you name or does the line under your name have legal meaning? I need to put this in my notes.” He said that if the ARR has “legal meaning” that it would be in his discretion not to open the account (the account is already opened). He also asked me if I had read the privacy disclose (which I did) and mentioned that he can’t have me reserving my rights since the bank has to reserve their rights in contracts they have with other parties. I didn’t follow up on that. He ended up making a few angry statements and hanging up on me. I’m expecting that he will close the account in the near future.

My question is how do we respond to that question? I couldn’t think of a question on the spot to turn it back on him. Since he asked the question as I dichotomy and as a condition of his allowing the account to be opened I assume that answering that it is just how I sign would eliminate my ability to rely on the ARR in any future communications/court case etc.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by  michael-teo. Reason: added more information

[michael-teo]

Looking further into this I realise that it is a little more nuanced than I thought…

These are the sections of the Act that they are referring to saying that they are criminal offences:

Failure to have a director ID when required to do so. s1272C

Failure to apply for a director ID when directed by the Registrar. s1272D

This is s1272D of the Corporations Act 2001:

(1) An eligible officer whom the Registrar has directed under subsection 1272A(2) to apply for a director identification number must apply to the Registrar under section 1272A for a director identification number:
…
(3) An offence based on subsection (1) is an offence of strict liability.
Note: For strict liability , see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code .

Now, on 30 March 2023, I did receive a letter from ABRS signed by the deputy registrar stating that I need to get a director ID. Now regarding whether or not it is a criminal offence, it makes sense that that if there is no victim then it can’t be criminal.

I don’t really understand what this s6.1 of the Criminal Code Act 1995 means or how it applies to this:

Division 6 — Cases where fault elements are not required
6.1 Strict liability
(1) If a law that creates an offence provides that the offence is an offence of strict liability:
(a) there are no fault elements for any of the physical elements of the offence; and
(b) the defence of mistake of fact under section 9.2 is available.
(2) If a law that creates an offence provides that strict liability applies to a particular physical element of the offence:
(a) there are no fault elements for that physical element; and
(b) the defence of mistake of fact under section 9.2 is available in relation to that physical element.

However, there’s an additional layer of complexity… We will be going to court to terminate a wind up (liquidation) order, which involves both demonstrating solvency and showing that we are fulfilling our roles as directors properly. We will be represented by a barrister in this case so it may be difficult to enforce an agreement created by the commercial default.

Since a company is a creature of statute (and thus is obligated to follow the statutes), it is difficult to maintain the separation between the fiction and the private man, especially when not representing myself… The “director of the company” has an obligation to get a DIN, but the Act doesn’t apply to the private man. It’s becoming clearer to me why Mark doesn’t like using companies.

Considering this, I am wondering if it might be worth considering whether I should offer to get a DIN without creating a myGovID since there is no law compelling me to get a myGov account. That way I fulfil the requirement to get the number, but don’t get the digital ID.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by  michael-teo.

www5.austlii.edu.au

CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 - SECT 1678 Definitions

CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 - SECT 1678 Definitions

[michael-teo]

Thank you Morag.
That’s pretty much what I thought (I must be learning something…). My 3rd round is due to be sent off on Friday 27th. I’m thinking that I’ll add a short letter to that round briefly addressing their letter.

A couple of thoughts regarding this:
1. If the Corporations Act is active from 2001, why was it only since 2021 that it is allegedly a criminal offence for a company director not to have a director ID?
2. Further searching the CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 I found this definition which does seem to include “director of a company” under the definition of “eligible officer”:

SECT 1272B

Meaning of eligible officer
(1) An eligible officer is:
(a) a director of a company, or of a body corporate that is a registered Australian body or registered foreign company, who:
(i) is appointed to the position of a director; or
(ii) is appointed to the position of an alternate director and is acting in that capacity;
regardless of the name that is given to that position; or

So it seems that relying on the definition I quoted in the previous post would not hold.

[michael-teo]

This is the letter I received in response to my non-consent letter/s (I’ve sent 2 rounds so far). I realise that this is a non-answer to the letter/s I have sent.
However, I have 2 questions about this letter:
1. Is “It is a criminal offence if you do not apply.” a bluff? I looked up the “relevant law” link in the letter and it doesn’t seem relevant to me…

Requirement to have a director identification number
(1) An eligible officer must have a director identification number.

Officer is defined as:

“officer” , in relation to a registered foreign company, includes a local agent of the foreign company.

2. Does “Please note, neither I nor ASIC accepts or assumes any liability whatsoever arising from the matters raised in your correspondence.” hold any weight? Should I specifically address this in the next round? If so, how?

Edit: I realised that this is mentioned further down this thread so that answers my first question. I’d still like to know about their liability waiver in the letter though.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by  michael-teo.

www5.austlii.edu.au

CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 - SECT 1678 Definitions

CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 - SECT 1678 Definitions

MT-Director-ID-20231020-Redacted.pdf 72 KB PDF - Click to view

Options

• Copy Download Link

[michael-teo]

Yes, correct. The “N” in EIN stands for “number” anyway.

[michael-teo]

Thank you for the confirmation. That’s what I did in the first 2 rounds and I was wondering if I’d made a mistake. Glad to know that I got it right.

[michael-teo]

Another basic question… At the top of the default notice it says:

“Registered Post Mail # ___________________”

The blank is not auto-populated like it is on the Certificate of Mailing. Is this supposed to be left blank? From the video I assume that it is supposed to be filled out and the auto-generator just didn’t do it.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by  michael-teo.

[michael-teo]

Thank you. That’s really useful.

[michael-teo]

The example (1 ANZ Contract Back Pages.pdf) has “EIN No.” written.

[michael-teo]

No, there’s no instructions as to what to write so you would just copy the example and modify it according to your purposes.
On the back of the ANZ example there is a 5c stamp then over the top signature, date completed and EIN number. Is your file illegible?

[michael-teo]

Thank you, Morag.
I know that Mark doesn’t like using companies but might ask his opinion on that one too when I get the chance.

[michael-teo]

Yes, I do mean the director’s id non-consent.
Yes, it does have L.S. What is L.S.?
Why does the checklist have purple ink instead of red? Does the colour make any difference.