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Crypto and Trusts
Are their any folks establishing crypto portfolios in their NR Trust accounts? What platforms/exchanges they use? Whether they identified their accounts on exchange as personal or chose the business/trust option? (being non registered may not require the trust option as too much detail needs to be divulged for the KYC process) I currently have accounts for Superfund and personal, and have started setting one up for NR Trust. In the pension phase of a SMSF account assets can be transferred in specie (not converted to cash to transfer) from super to personal (if you qualify under SMSF rules). I’m interested to know what others are doing.
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37 Replies
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There’s something in here from another member. If you put SWYTX into the word search you will see how someone set up an alternative account.
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Thanks for that.
Interesting, it appears Mark (or someone) may be suggesting trading is best done through a non reg foundation. will investigate this also. There are lots of options available it seems trialing them gains the knowledge.
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The man who sells foundations (the one Mark recommends) would be able to help you through the process.
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Yes actually, Im not sure I interpreted that right. I have a non reg foundation and it definitely cannot hold title and be used in public commerce.
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so NR trust holds digital assets…any “surplus” can be donated to yr foundation……is that what u are doing? or u putting surplus into trust bank account?
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Most of my holdings are in cold storage offline anyway. what I’m researching/contemplating is whether I stay on a personal crypto exchange account which already has KYC (know your client govt overreach) to convert back to $ and put surplus into NR Foundation (which ato will see). Or set up exchange account under NR trust name do the KYC personally again as trustee,(controller). As the bank account is under NRT name , from there it could be flicked over to NRF also, then its a fresh start and all previous papertrail with pirates will go cold. I’m thinking this is best option. This would be the same consideration if trading shares on ASX exchange I assume, you operate it from within the NRT. Just exploring at the moment eh.
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i hear you…….thanks for reply…if u make any progress with it or have any other ideas let us know..appreciate yr response..cheers
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Yes
Caleb and Brown
Setup an account under trust name and supply with copy of trust.
Transfer any crypto from exchanges to trust account with c & b
Any future crypto purchases can be made in trust name with c & b
Any selling of crypto from your c & b trust account to your trust account setup with bank
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This reply was modified 2 years ago by miket.
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much appreciated…thank you
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Cheers for that Miket, its a good option, I assume they are accepting Non Reg trust.
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They do, you need to provide a copy of the full deed though.
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Yes
When i provided, less than 5 minutes later account created
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did u have to provide all 28 pages? did you scan it or send physical copy? thanks in advance
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Took photos of all pages and sent via email.
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Thanks mike, appreciate it. Currently, about to set up trust ac with bank ..any recommendations who to/not ti go with? Was going to try to avoid comm bank
Cheers
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Hi
I used West Pack.
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This reply was modified 2 years ago by
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Has anyone been tested by ATO seeking CGT, when transferring assets from SMSF (when age eligible) directly into a trust? Would a declaration of contribution be necessary or prudent to have on hand to provide evidence of the transfer of assets from a SMSF and provide proof of contribution. Or is it a case of wait until they make the assertion and question the jurisdiction.
I noted Mark mentioned to make small contributions to avoid the spotlight.
Thoughts appreciated
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Hi, just wondering if you ‘loaning’ the crypto to the trust would avoid creating a ‘taxable event’ by transfering, selling or gifting- which can be seen as you having ‘disposed’ of it. Anyone tried that?
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There’s a Q and A tonight maybe ask Mark there?…. https://solutionsempowerment.org/event/general-qa-march-19/
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Dang unfortunately missed it, did you ask about this? Maybe I can ask another way?
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The next !Q and A is in April… https://solutionsempowerment.org/self-study/qa-with-founder/… However you could try asking your question under the contact tab.
solutionsempowerment.org
Q&A Sessions with Founder (Upcoming / Recorded) – SolutionsEmpowerment.org
Q&A Sessions with Founder (Upcoming / Recorded) – SolutionsEmpowerment.org
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Is anyone using Binance and setup an account with their Trust account?
Does anyone know of any legitimate exchanges that don’t have ATO reporting?
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I use Binance exchange, I just made a contribution of my crypto holdings to our non registered trust, wrote it in the minutes then continued to trade using my personal account, which I was already trading with, but now I’m trading as the trustee on behalf of Trust. This has not been through a financial year so has not been tested. There may be some questions asked as the ATO have the KYC info and address from when it was personal holdings. If you are starting fresh then that may prove to be less messy for you to defend. They are an international company, but Coinspot is here in oz and they told me they can set up a NRTrust if you want, no abn required and you can load up on it with AUD, (unlike binance). Good luck your just in time for the bull market.
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If your Trust is non registered then the tax department have no jurisdiction over what it does, so how could they intrude on those private transactions? Just curious.
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Hi morag, Absolutely agree, it is outside their jurisdiction. The distinction was between using existing exchange connected accounts with history they have, against setting up fresh bank to exchange rails. My thoughts were, its less likely to have reason for ato to even make contact. When I stated It hadn’t been tested, I meant I have not had to hold position on that yet & I am not sure as to how we prove our contributions from personal ownership to Trust ownership other than minutes we keep, which we are not obligated to divulge anyway. what are your thoughts on that, do we even need to provide a deed of contribution, or do we just direct them to prove that it is NOT whatever we deem it to be? Is there any necessity to provide evidence of change of ownership at all? I have not seen anything related to this in Q&As . The reason this is different is, most other asset classes have a regulated body that keep records eg shares, real estate, bullion etc, and where there is a ownership change there is a change in title and the taxman can see that. Crypto is very different as it is decentralized and you hold the keys so they dont see any ownership change within a wallet you control.
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If approached could you ask to see the contract between them and the trust? Could you ask them if they are trespassing the trusts time and peace etc? Could they not be subject to a penalty after three warnings to cease and desist?
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Yes, very true. I have a list of notes and responses and those mentioned are amongst them. Thankyou.
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digital assets from you to trust……can choose one/all of the following/ (a) deed of gift (v simple draw one up, get witnessed by jp)/ (b) stat dec (v simple print a blank template..fill out and get signed by jp/ (c) affidavit..same thing…. simply write out something like I, (name) donate all my digital asset portfolio to trust on such a date.. to the best of my knowledge, they come free of any encumbrances and thats it…keep it simple…..look up on a search engine some examples of deed of gift and taylor it. as said, keep it simple. minimum info. cheers…ps why u guys using centralised exchange? all tre best
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Hey there QLDer, how’s things up there? I never quite made it up your way last year, my old man celebrated his 103rd year on this planet so I went back to say Gday. We have spoken of deeds etc before eh, Thanks for the reminder, I had decided to go on the premise that, the arrangement is all done in OUR realm and documented in OUR minutes , therefore its only relevant to us, so I will cross that bridge later eh. Isnt it weird we play these mind games to try and justify our argument or position. Its a testament to how well the programming of us in school and society etc worked.
SO you have found a DEX you can on and offboard to fiat without KYC have you mate ? You better share that little nugget. 😉
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Not sure if there is a DEX (decentralised ) exchange here in aus , as far as I’m aware of they are all CEX ( centralised ) . I have also heard when transferring larger transactions on ledger or Trezor hard wallets , you are prompted to do KYC details. I’ve yet to try this , and am not sure of the threshold amount. Would love to know of new DEX s ? . The space is always evolving, and presenting new things . Cheers Twiggie
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Hi Twiggy. A dex is a completely online exchange (not geographically bound, no country or gov regulation) you cannot onboard with fiat, you have to own crypto first, but you can come back to fiat with a card or an app like “STABLES card” If you are using NR Trust and you can hold position some of the CEXs like coinspot have a debit card facility as well.
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Yes, there are DEX’s that will exchange from Crypto to AUD. (they are not based in Australia though)
As expected, the rate isn’t great. Around 5-10% below spot. And it took around 3-5 days to clear.Have successfully helped people do this. (only for small amounts though. ~$2k at a time)
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Hi Miket, A bit late but just reading thru crypto posts. Caleb & Brown are an Asset management/fund. Not an exchange as far as I can tell.
Why / how do you use them to hold and trade your cryptos? Unless you are using their fund only?
Also, the danger of leaving with another party – not your keys…What about using Ledger/Trezor for trading? Off line and safe. Coinspot to onboard and offboard to AUD$
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Hi philnjp
I have transferred all crypto from exchanges and wallets to C & B
They have a trading portal which you can log into and view your holdings, buy and sell.
Pretty easy to use.
Reason i use is that they can sell large amount of crypto easy.
You are assigned a personal broker who you can ring or email.
Also, be aware that exchanges ( binance etc )) can go down or slow in a bull frenzy
All crypto is also insured by them if something were to go wrong.
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Thanks for all the contributions on this topic
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This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by deejay.
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This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by
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I have stopped using exchanges. Exchanges report to HMRC in the UK.
I use my CGT free allowance to buy goods and services with my crypto.
I want to put my crypto in NRT and want to know if when placing the crypto in the trust deed, does it need to specify an amount or can it just list the wallet address?
If the latter, I assume anyone can at any time transfer crypto to that wallet.
Thanks for any insights.
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There’s a Q and A on tonight maybe ask your question there?… https://solutionsempowerment.org/event/general-qa-june-18/
solutionsempowerment.org
General Q&A: June 18 – SolutionsEmpowerment.org
General Q&A: June 18 – SolutionsEmpowerment.org
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